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Discussion Starter #1
The Puretech Turbo has arrived!

The May price list has a significant number of changes in which include;

Puretech 110 and 130 engines now in the Allure and Feline to replace the 1.6VTi manual (the 1.6VTi Auto is available from stock but not for order so the Puretech EAT Auto models will be here shortly). The 130 is only £400 more...

Access+ has been renamed Access A/C, the specification seems to be the same though

The Crossway has been discontinued buy stock is still available

There is a new specification level of 'Urban Cross' which is based on the Active specification and is available with either be new Blue 100 engine or the Puretech 110 and adds; Parking sensors, Tinted rear windows, Aluminium Sills, Standard Metallic Paint, Chrome Radiator surround, Nera Black electrically folding mirrors, 'Urban Cross' trim, Black (completely) 17" Eridan's, Carpet Mats and Grip Control. It has limited colour choice with Bianca White, Nera Black, Emerald (only available on the Urban Cross), Nimbus Grey and Amber Red.

Colours wise, the Dakota Brown has gone as has Virtual Blue

Diesel models are now all 'Blue' save for stock models of the 92bhp 1.6HDi EGC. The new engines are 1.6 Blue 75, 1.6 Blue 100 and the 1.6 Blue 120 that was introduced a few months back.

The Access+ can be had with the 75, Active with both 75 and 100, Allure with 100 and 120 and the same for Feline models.

The 1.2 Puretech 82 is also now Euro 6.

Prices of direct replacement models don't appear to have changed.
Edited by: Frank Bullitt
 

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Do you know why Peugeot does not offer the New Puretech 130 6 speed automatic on the Active?I really would like to specify the engine but not all the gizmos that come with the Allure.
I see they offer this auto with the 308 Active.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
There's no 130 auto at the moment across the range, irrespective of spec.

Car manufacturers, to keep things simple, tend to not offer all engines with all specification - I think the lack of a Puretech Active is a shame (especially as you could get an Active 1.6VTi for the first 9 months of production) but I guess the Urban Cross is perceived to take up that market to a degree - I believe the EAT6 will be introduced across PSA on the 110 Puretech; looking at the performance stats it seems barely any slower than the 130 which suggests that on manual models it has a 5th gear that is broadly the same gearing as 6th on the 130 (ie it has 5 wider spaced ratios rather than 6 closer on the 130) because it also gets to 60 just behind the 130 which suggests it probably hits it in 2nd where as the 130 needs 3rd gear or hits it in 2nd by being on the red line where turbo engines tend to lack any real pull.

I would expect an Urban Cross 110 EAT6 at some point, but let's see!

It's a shame the Beijing Bronze interior on the Allure is still limited to Bianca White and Pearlescent White (now Dakota Brown has gone) as the Feline with Calima brown can be had with all colour options and on the continent Beijing Bronze can be had with all colours. It would look great with Cumulus or Nimbus.Edited by: Frank Bullitt
 

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As you know, I've been holding off ordering a new2008 as I wanted the petrol engine with the EAT6 automatic (diesel is no good with our short journeys).
Alas, my dealer could only advise that it should be 'sometime in the near future; maybe later this year togetherwith a facelift'.

Hence I've ordered a new 308 1.2 PureTech 130 EAT6. Love the 2008 but thought it better to get the correct version now rather than wait for more depreciation to hit and the possibility of a higher price on the new version. Hopefully it will be arriving with my dealer just about now.

The 308 is more costly but the petrol engine together with the new EAT6 auto is a combination I think I'll be pleased to live with for quite a while.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I've no doubt you'll be pleased Al, and as delighted as we are with the DS4 I can't help thinking a Puretech 130 Allure with Cielo roof, luggage bet and 17" Eridan's would be ideal - I'd even go for Bianca to get the Beijing Bronze! Shame Peugeot didn't introduce these engines at the same time as the 308.

I think the 308 is a great looking car.
 

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Hi FrankThank you very much for your comprehensive replies.
In your experience, how long will it be before a dealer can offer a test drive in a 2008 6 speed auto?
Do you foresee any ongoing problems with this engine, which is new to the 2008 range?
Last week a friend came to visit and he has just taken delivery of a new 2008 Allure with the 1.2VTI 5 speed manual engine. I have to say that fully loaded with 4 adults the car seemed to be underpowered when compared to myCitroen C4 VTR+ HDI Auto (2008 model)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
They will be here by September in order to comply with Euro 6 legislation but how much sooner is a guess - is expect soon as the VTi Auto is stock models only.

As for availability you may need to go far afield to try one - the 1.2VTi (now Puretech 82) will lack to fully loaded, it's probably perfectly puntable but the small capacity and lack of turbo will restrict performance particularly when compared to your car with plenty of mid-range punch; you should try the Putetech even if in a 308 to get a feel for the engine. In Europe the 130 see's business in the C4 Picasso and Grand Picasso so it's perfectly capable.

As for reliability it may be to soon to say but the engine has been in the 308 for the past 12 months and there are no recorded issues I'm aware of, and it is being well received by the press generally - unless you are doing 15k+ pa, this has to be a better choice than diesel.

Looking at the updated list again, I notice 17" Eridan's are no longer an option on Allure models.
 

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Hi FrankThanks again for reply.
I have been trying to find where to get a test drive in a 308 petrol auto but at the moment to no avail.
All the dealers offer a diesel auto version.
During my research I came across the Seat Leon, which can be specified with a 7 speed DSG auto petrol engine so I am going to test one next week. I understand the Seat is heavily based on the Golf and the engine is a well proven German design so who knows!!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The SEAT Leon is basically a Golf with the dullness removed.

Lovely cars but don't google DSG failures if you want to sleep at night; the box deficates itself at will...

I've driven a few DSG Audi courtesy cars over the years and I'm not that enamoured to be honest.
 

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Hello Frank, thanks for the updates.

Could you help and tell em the difference between EGC & the new ETG, I understand ist still robotised but he ETG is now improved. Also love to hear what your view of teh ETG is and have you drive one ?

Thanks
 

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****,Wash your mouth out with soap.

You can't say that about our beloved DSG.



I know Frank made a valid point that they blow up, and there are many tales on the forums of disasters and they are prone to throwing their toys out of the pram. , but VAG have made and installed thousands and thousands of these in all sorts of vehicles without any issues. Its older vehicles that have been neglected with servicing or abused that suffer and that is the big issue. They need to be serviced correctly and often and they are expensive to service.


But the driving sensation is worth it and they can handle lots of power. Which cannot be said of the ECG which is capable of handling just about anything a peddle car can throw at it ...just.

Its like everything else, look after them and they will be fine. I've done approx 190k miles with two DSG Boxes without a cough, never mind a hiccup. As I said you only hear about the ones that are neglected or abused. The ratio of bad ones to good ones pales into insignificance.

I had an early version in a V6 TT, I did 140k with that car and later I had a an S Tronic in an Audi A6 which did 50k miles. There is nothing on the planet to touch them, on that I can speak from experience having covered moon miles over the years in my business, with all sorts of manual and automatic boxes..They are so quick to change gear and so smooth that there is no point in driving them manually, you cannot beat them. Unlike the ECG box where as the only way to drive them is manually.


I don't doubt that PSA have got there act together with the new autobox, after the ECG, a Massey Ferguson Box would have been an improvement.



I have heard that the new autobox is good and I'm sure that everybody who buys one will be overjoyed, I for one wish "madams" car had one, it would make a good car a great car for the money.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
uncletone said:
Its older vehicles that have been neglected with servicing or abused that suffer and that is the big issue. They need to be serviced correctly and often and they are expensive to service. 
I don't think my mate whose Skoda Octavia 2.0TDI DSG that he has owned from new with a full main dealer history (every 10k) and barely showing 70k on the clock would agree with that sentiment - his DSG has just deficated itself making the car almost worthless; he's gone for a recon unit and will now use the Octavia as his commuting tool rather than having his wife and sons left at the side of the road again. He tried to trade it in an undriveable condition and every dealer said 'no thanks, more trouble than they're worth'. For an 8 year old car that retailed for £20k...

You're right, plenty are fine but it's not just cars that are not looked after that suffer...
 

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I'm sorry to hear that Frank, if its been serviced by a main dealer then it shouldn't happen....as a rule.

Without knowing the consequences, I would be asking the dealer why this should happen, but unfortunately they do. Because of the difficulty in changing the oil, and the equipment needed to service these boxes, independents tend to give them a miss. They need filling from below via a pump and the oil must be at the right temperature, wrong temp, not enough oil, gearbox failure.

The service schedule is Oil & Filter every 40k, but its recognised that oil changes are best done every 20k. They need on average 6 lts of oil at £11.50 a ltr. Hence why a lot of people don't bother. In theory your friend would have had one oil & filter change....did he, if he didn't ....defecation all over the place.

If it had been mine it would have had 2 oil changes and 1 oil & filter change. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have had the same problem, it does happen, but these boxes are dependent on clean oil due to their nature. They not only need it for lubrication, but they need it to keep cool. As std these boxes will handle 425bhp, with a clutch upgrade these boxes handle 500+ bhp. A cheap scabby box will not cope with these power outputs.

Sorry I'm beginning to sound boring.

Later models with the S Tronic boxes are better, I only wish that PSA had designed something better than the ECG box. in fact its that good, after a few years they've dumped it and left hundreds of owners, probably a couple of thousand all over the world, not hundreds of thousands like VAG, with a disaster waiting to happen. In fact those of us with an ECG box are sitting on a time bomb. If the clutch and gear selector actuators go the car is scrap. It isn't worth repairing if it goes with anything more than 40k miles on the clock.

You mentioned dealers not wanting an 8 yr old car. Do you know of any Peugeot/Citroen dealers wanting a 3 yr old car with 30k on the clock and a good ECG gearbox not a duff one.

That's the difference, PSA sold a duff gearbox to meet emission regulations with not so much as any remorse or come back on the poor punter who gave up his hard earned cash.

You're right Frank, I must agree the DSG isn't perfect and my feelings go out to your friend and his family who could have been stranded. But my heart goes out to all of those who are driving any PSA model with an ECG Box.
I'm not talking about the unlucky ones, like those with a DSG box, but all those that have bought a car with one. Because sooner or later it will go wrong one way or another.

The problem they face, and I happen to be one, is if they keep their cars and it actually stays together for a few years when they come to sell it or trade it in, whatever, it will be worthless because nobody will buy it. And should it disintegrate on them the car becomes scrap value only.

You can't say that about every VAG model with a DSG of some description, and in these last few years that's amounted to over 65% of all models manufactured.


Edited by: uncletone
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It was serviced at 40k, yes, as I mentioned to him to ensure it was done - the Skoda dealer did also advise him the work would be required; doing it more often makes sense, which is why VAG should make it part of the Longlife service or if it's on fixed servicing, every other - sadly VAG intervals are engineered around lease running costs and not longevity.

I do actually know plenty of EGS (what Citroen call EGC) C4 Picasso owners who are delighted with the 'box and have seen it reliable to 150k+ bit there are, of course, too many instances of that not being the case for failures to be unheard of. I've also not seen people complain about how it drives at low speeds, only tardy upshifts being an issue which can 9/10 be sorted by an Italian Tune Up.
 

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Hi Frank,

Totally agree with you regarding VAG Service intervals all to do with keeping the Fleet Business happy. I see Peugeot are going down the same route.

When we got "madams" car I enquired about the servicing schedule believing it to be either 10k or yearly. They informed me that it had changed to 16k or yearly.
I asked why had it changed, had they improved the engine in anyway, no it was down to oil specs. Yeh right. If they had been using the right oil at the outset it should have been 16k or were they just getting money out of the punter.


This all came about because we asked for a serving plan. When it eventually arrived , the quote that is, they quoted for 10k mile intervals, when I rang up and told them I thought it was now 16k mile intervals, they told me that was for business users.
How does being a business user change the service intervals? Bizarre.





By the way what is this "Italian Tune Up". I'm intrigued, I'll have a go at anything that sorts out the gearchange quality
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The 1.6HDi 16v engine was notorious for the turbo blowing due to the oil sump being only 3.5L and a recessed sump plug which meant that unless the oil was changed properly there was always too much left - push the intervals at all and this oil eventually went sludgy and blokes filters, starving the turbo. The 8v engine (now fitted) has revisions which help this but, frankly, you'd never get me pushing the intervals to 16k...

The Italian Tune Up is generally referred to as the 'hard reset'; with a warm engine, from a standing start select '1st' and give it full beans to the red line before selecting '2nd', this recalibrates the clutch and in 9/10 occasions Picasso owners found this made the change much smoother.
 

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Hi Frank

Your dead right about the oil. I'll be carrying out an oil & filter change every other service at 8k and sucking it out.



Red Line 1st Gear, That sounds interesting I'll make sure I only do that when "madam" is not in the car.

I like the title, "italian tune up" quality.
 
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