[Frank Bullitt]

Still no news on the 1.2e-THP engines so still be hanging on...and on...

Wondering how owners of the 1.2VTi find it behaves on longer journeys - our driving is largely around town and local trips 20-ish miles on A-roads and dual carriageways but my parents are a 200 mile trip away to the North East, the In-Laws in Solihull and we have an annual trip to France plus another break; I'm fairly sure for pottering around the 1.2VTi would be fine but not so sure on longer trips; I can't find a dealer with a 1.2, they are all diesels of some nature or offer a 208 1.2VTi which is quite a bit lighter so probably not representative.

Anyone put a long journey on their 1.2VTi? I assume it's geared so that 70 in 5th is about 3200rpm so about 3600rpm at the French limit so reasonably smooth - what's performance like?

We will keep the car 6 years so I don't want to make a bad decision but with no news on the powerful 1.2's I'm keen to purchase sooner rather than later; the other option is the 1.6VTi of course but looking at the performance stats once you get moving the two engines don't seem that difference in performance.

All thoughts greatly received (p.s. I don't want boat fuel!)

 

[jinxx80]

Hi Frank,

Funnily enough I have a 1.2 petrol and i think it brilliant on long journeys as i've spent before xmas driving up and down on the M1 from Nottingham to London according to Google maps is 145 miles.
We have been putting in about between £40-£45 and this has allowed us to drive:

Nottingham to London 145 miles
In and around London 30 miles
London to Nottingham 145 miles
Short trips in Nottingham 10 miles
And we still had according to computer another 96 miles left before refilling,

We do feel that the car can probably produce maybe 415/30 miles to a full tank. For us this is great.

The car is extremely smooth, so smooth as I was 80 and didn't realise, until hubby informed me my heavy foot is getting carried away, i can't really say about RPMs because i wouldn't have a clue what i'm saying. The car didn't shake or feel unsteady like my old 05 fiesta use to when i hit 70mph. Not very literate when it comes to cars but I feel the performance of the petrol is extraordinary (who needs diesel?)<br style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><br style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">I feel the 1.2 has enough kick to keep you satisfied, unless there is a boy racer within, the current 1.2 engine should be sufficient for your needs. What i read about the e-thp is just less emissions so no road tax. not sure if its better fuel consumption (but i could be very wrong)

Hope this helps
Jinxx

 

[Sumpong]

Hi
I asked Peugeot UK for info. regarding new engines, they replied :

There are plans to roll out new engine sizes in March of 2014, however no further details at to what they are going to be have been released as yet.
We would recommend that you keep in contact with your local dealership, who will have the most up to date news.


My dealer had no info.


A user on peugeotforums.com told me :


<em style="line-height: 1.4;">The 1.2 turbo arrives on the continent in the next few weeks, here around March and going to replace the non turbo versions of the 1.6 Prince across the whole range.[/i]

<em style="line-height: 1.4;">
[/i]
I am in a similar position in that I am keen to order but for the sake of approx. 9/10 weeks I am waiting.

Hopefully I will then be able to order with the 1.2 turbo engine.
Depends what it comes with, I ideally want the grip control & six speed gearbox like the 1.6 petrol or diesels get.

If it still has a 5 speed gearbox & no grip control I might go for a diesel.



Edited by: Sumpong

 

[Frank Bullitt]

Thanks both, and that's useful information on the launch of the new engines - I assume they will be the same as the 1.2 e-THP in the 308 which makes a 110bhp version and 130bhp version; I'm fairly comfortable that the lower powered version would be fine even if it only comes with a 5-speed gearbox (the 1.6VTi is also only 5-speed) as it does in the 308; despite Jinx's useful guidance on the 1.2VTi I might just keep my powder dry, I think I'd always kick myself for not being patient.

In the 308 the new 110bhp version is practically the same price as the 125bhp 1.6THP (an engine they seem to have introduced for the new model and will probably phase out shortly

, if Peugeot charge roughly the same for the 110bhp as the current 1.6 VTi then a 1.2 e-THP Allure will be affordable, on the 308 the 110bhp version is £1,250 more than the 1.2VTi so they probably will align well.

The good news is we both agree on colour, Spirit Grey, although I'd be happy with Active spec the lack of electric rear windows (even as an option) is a real pain and by the time I add the parking sensors and the automatic lights packs you're getting close to Allure money anyway!

I might just have to be patient and get my head around a September 1st delivery by the time they are introduced, driveable and can be ordered!

 

[jinxx80]

Frank, how does the MPH compare with the ethp and vti engines, isn't that what you are more bothered about? Or is it speed?

I thought more power would inevitably mean less miles, but i could be wrong

 

[Frank Bullitt]

Your logic makes sense but there are a myriad of other factors that comes into play so the technical answer is that it depends!

For example, more torque at lower engine speeds allows changing up a gear earlier possible and less need to drop out of top gear when 'balked' on the motorway, the engine could take longer gearing (so driving at 70mph may be at 300-400rpm less thus loosing less fuel) although you can go too far and drop the engine out of it's optimum operating range, again necessitating a down change (a friend has a Lexus IS220d and it will only pull in 6th gear over 85mph, he drives around in 5th instead). However, choose to use the power by reviving the engine and yes, economy will very much suffer. My A2 is remapped from 79bhp and 164lb/ft of torque to 97bhp and 203lb/ft of torque (both figures obtained on a dyno so these are genuine) and I drove it for 2 years before doing it and have had it for seven years remapped; economy didn't change because for all the times I now use the power there are as many times I can cruise around at lower speeds on a higher gear and never need to changeout of 5th on the motorway.

The 2008 would be replacing my wife's C4 Picasso HDi - it's been doing 17,000 miles a year until last summer because of her commute and it being the family bus - she now has a job as a heads PA in a senior school on our town so it's probably doing 400 miles a month plus the trips to France and Brum etc., so we will only do 8,000 miles a year; the Citroen did 46mpg as she did lots of driving into Cambridge which is a horrific place to use a car around, it's now doing 42mpg on account of lots of short journeys so to be honest, having funded 17,000pa out of out own pocket economy is the last of my concerns! Whether I get 40mpg out of a car or 35mpg doesn't truly bother us; my A2 used to be the family car doing 13,000 miles pa when mrs FB had a smart but it's now just my commuting tool and does 9kpa.

But overall I'm convinced a 1.2 e-THP won't use any more fuel than a 1.2VTi as it will need 'thrashing' less!

 

[Sumpong]

As we don't have details of the new 2008 engines I have compared the current 2008 with figures for the new 308 (assuming the same new petrol engines will be coming to the 2008 soon, not sure if the 2008 diesel will get a Blue version. Would be good if it did as it is listed as up to 91.1 mpg combined & £0 road taxon the 308).Obviously they can't be directly compared but it might be useful as the engine arrangements will be the same but in different cars.
The 308 is heavier, the 2008 is probably not so aerodynamic, the 308 might have low rolling resistance tyres to improve mpg whereas the 2008 has winter tyres for the grip control.


All manual


Petrol2008 - current engine

1.2 VTi Allure £15.095
82 bhp , 118Nm, 5 gears
Top speed - 105, 0-62 in 13.5
Weight 1045
Combined 57.6 mpg
Co2 114 (B-£20)

308 - new engine

308 1.2 e-THP Allure (July production) £18,645 30
8 1.2 e-THP Allure (July production) £19,395
110 bhp, 205Nm, 5 gears
130 bhp, 230Nm, 6 gears
Top speed - 115, 0-62 in 12.0
Top speed - 115, 0-62 in 11.0
Weight 1280
Weight 1280 ?
Combined 58.8 mpg
Combined 56.5 mpg
Co2 109 (B-£20)
Co2 112 (B-£20)


Diesel
2008 - current engine
1.6 e-HDi Allure £17,745
115 bhp, 270Nm, 6 gears
Top speed - 117, 0-62 in 10.4
Weight 1180
Combined 70.6 mpg
Co2 106 (B-£20)



308 - new Blue version
1.6 BlueHDi Allure (March production) £20,545
120 bhp, 225Nm, 6 gears
Top speed - 115, 0-62 in 12.0
Weight 1395 ?
Combined 88.3 mpg
Co2 87 (A-£0)







Edited by: Sumpong

 

[Frank Bullitt]

The torque figures above on the e-THP are in lb/ft; NM it's 205 and 230 for the 110 and 130bhp engines respectively.

I did the same by comparing the 308 1.2VTi and 2008 1.2VTi which have remarkably similar stats to each other. Basic stats they don't look as quick as the 1.6VTi and I suspect over 5000rpm there's no pleasure to be had but in the real world they will both undoubtably drive well.

Being a 2 car 3-pot house has huge appeal!

 

[Sumpong]

Cheers Frank, I have updated my post.

 

[Frank Bullitt]

Interestingly, the performance for the 308 improves dramatically with 15" or 16" wheels over the figures for 17" and 18" shown above (11 seconds to 60 and 120mph in the 110, 10 seconds to 60 and also 120mph in the 130) - the fact both tunes have the same top speed suggests the performance tails away rapidly at the top end.

Considering how close the two cars are in 1.2VTi version, the 1.6VTi (2008) has much better raw stats than the turbocharged 125bhp 1.6THP (308); I can only assume the 1.6VTi will hit 60 in 2nd where as the 6-speed 1.6THP must need 3rd; I bet the 1.6THP is great in the real world though.

I'm a geek when it comes to stats.

 

[RichardG]

Hi Frank,

Mine is a base model 1.2 vti and I have just clocked up 1000 miles. Had to buy it on a half day test drive in a 208 1.2 vti as only 1.6 was available for demo and still is the case in Devon. I do a lot of 2 & 10 mile journeys so diesel was out. 208 drove very nicely in our very hilly area so placed the order and thus far are very satisfied even surprised as the performance is way beyond what I had expected. I feel sure if people were able to test a 2008 1.2 vti they would feel happy to order this combination. In the lower gears it is actually quite aggressive and needs a gentle touch when hill starting in the wet (yes we have had plenty of that) to avoid wheel spin. We have used 23 galls to do 1000 miles so average 43 mpg which is good for our hilly rural use expect to get 50 on a run. I have requested a test drive in a demo car with a 1.2 engine as I think the ECU mapping on mine is a little too aggressive but a good interesting drive with a great sound. Have done a couple of short motorway trips with just one passenger and at the legal max it really is just fine but not had a chance to test the cruise control yet, I am used to a more powerful car but am really impressed with this engine so no regrets, really great value for 12K.

 

[Frank Bullitt]

Really useful write up Richard, perhaps I need to go further field to try one!

 

[molinari]

I'm satisfied with the 1.2VTi petrol engine. It seems like it begins to run real smooth just above 70mph. I would say 75mph is the best cruise speed. The noise in the cabin seems to fall at that speed at its quite possible to a have a conversation with other passengers at a normal voice volume. Even the fuel consumption gets better. I have to set the the speed down to about 60mph to see a better consumption rate on the trip computer

 

[Frank Bullitt]

Great info - what's the gearing in top? I'm guessing it's about 22mph/1000rpm (3200rpm at a genuine 70mph)

 

[haligary]

I have been pressing Peugeot for information on the release of the 1.2 turbo engine and received this reply earlier today. Looks like its going to be a good while yet:-

Quote

Thank you for your recent email. I can confirm after speaking to the product team the turbo engines will be launched in 2015.

Thank you so much for your patience with this matter.

Kind Regards

______________________________________________
Peugeot Customer Advisor
_______________________________________________
The Peugeot Customer Contact Centre

UnquoteEdited by: haligary

 

[haligary]

Edited by: haligary

 

[Frank Bullitt]

Well, Mrs FB, FB junior and I are off for a spin in a 1.2VTi on Friday morning - I will let you know how it goes and yes, I will make sure we go on the A1 to give it a nice stretch!

 

[Sumpong]

Frank
Have you given up hope of the e-thp being introduced soon ?
Peugeot originally told me March but I emailed them again today to be told there are no plans to introduce new engines.
They also told me the 2008 only came out in October so I don't think they really know what they are talking about.

 

[Frank Bullitt]

Frank
Have you given up hope of the e-thp being introduced soon ?
Peugeot originally told me March but I emailed them again today to be told there are no plans to introduce new engines.
They also told me the 2008 only came out in October so I don't think they really know what they are talking about.

That's pretty much the top and bottom of it to be honest - I'm not convinced anyone at Peugeot has a clue about the new e-THP engines and seeing as how March production on 308 models was advised 5 months in advance, I doubt they will be introducing this in the 2008 anytime soon. March ordering for June/ July delivery was the initial advice I got last autumn but the lack of information is disappointing...

I'm also going to drive a 208 1.6VTi too to see if I like that engine, I don't mind waiting but the lack of information is a bit poor to be honest.

 

[Frank Bullitt]

So how did it go?

Complete waste of time. Turned up at 09.30 prompt to discover the salesman was off sick and had been all week, no 1.2VTi on-site and nobody with any knowledge of what he might have sorted for us, he didn't seem to have a file for us. The best one of the other salesman could offer was to see what he could find out 'next week' and at no point did the sales manager, who the salesman we spoke to today had checked with, come over to make us feel remotely welcome so we left after 10 minutes of professional naval gazing.

After some more searching we have found a 1.6VTi at Norton Way in Letchworth, a quick chat with one of the sales team and we are having a test drive tomorrow; hopefully we will fare better there but I feel slightly miffed that the local dealer, in our home town, has such a poor level of service; issues happen but it's how you deal with them...