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We have just purchased a 2008 Allure 1.6eHDI start/stop EGC.



I have searched the internet and forums and I can find plenty of comments
regarding clunky gear changes, problems hill starting etc but haven't found
anything about other owners having issues with low speed manoeuvring.



In a normal manual vehicle it would be normal to "slip" the clutch to
provide precision control - for example manoeuvring into a parking spot or negotiating
the ramps in a multi-storey car-park. The same would be the case for a
traditional automatic gearbox where torque is applied progressively and has the
same effect.



However, my understanding of the EGC is that the clutch is either in or out -i.e.
you have either full power or no power and nothing in between and
consequently little control over the vehicle other than the throttle.



The result of this is making it extremely difficult to control the vehicle at
very low speeds - it simply goes from stationary to lurching forwards when the
gear engages as the throttle is depressed.



So my question is this.... assuming this is normal behaviour for the Peugeot
EGC gearbox (as the dealership claims) how do others manage to control the car
at low speeds? If it is not normal behaviour then has anyone else had similar
issues and what was the solution?



Thanks



Gareth

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Edited by: buntings
 

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The EGR is coupling the shift progressively, dont imagine will engage 1st gear and you are flying away :)))
I have no problems with maneuvrability at low speeds (5-10km/h), just let the brake and will go slowly ahead...
Same with the reverse speed.
If you look at robotized gear of 2008, will see that shifting does not mean "couple it instantly", but is also the torque controlled...will go easy...
 

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Also if you press brake, you will disengage...so use brake...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you for that information - which is very interesting.

The main issue is parking at my office. The parking area is slightly up hill and when the brake is removed the car does not creep up hill - we have to use the accelerator and then the car jumps forward even if we are very gentle!

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Would you expect the car to slowly move forward a) on level ground and b) very slight hill if you dont press the accelerator.

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I have many issues with the ecg box as reported on my earlier posts. I also think that it is very difficult to control at low speeds and getting into a tight parking spot borders on the dangerous. If you have start-stop it is even worse. The creep function would be good if it were reliable but sometimes it creeps sometimes it doesn't and in any case you have to release the brake for it to work so if the space is on a slight incline the car rolls backwards. It makes you look a complete prat. Still as the dealers say its normal for these vehicles.
 

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Try to work also with handbrake... I had no problems to park in 3-4% hills, tight spaces...just make the rear parking...when you go out, use handbrake if the hill is not tight and the hill assist does not enter...Of course, is not same with manual gear, but until now I did not get any problems with this...
Also parking a lot in a Mall, at -2 or -3 floor, parking spaces extremely tight...Probably is just a matter of practice...
 

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Give an extra push on the foot brake just as you are about to move to the accelerator.

This will hold the car with 'hill start' for that second or two.

I found if you don't do the extra 'press then release' on the brake pedal then the car will roll backwards until the revs cause the clutch to catch and you move forward, usually with a jolt as you've over-revved!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi,

Thank you for all the thoughts and hints.

Having asked for an automatic and sold the car as an "automatic" we are a little disappointed with the way it behaves compared with last four vehicles that were true automatics. Its a shame the garage never made it clear that what the ECG actually was ( missellling us an "automatic" is another story!) and that it has limitations and needs to be driven in a different way.

As for reversing into the parking place - this is of course an excellent suggestion and anywhere else we do reverse. Unfortunately the architect that designed our office placed the air intakes for the ventilation system at ground level - so, to stop the office occupants from being gassed by exhaust fumes, we are not allowed to reverse into the parking places as the exhaust fumes get sucked into the office! Great eh?!

I guess we will just have to take all your thoughts and experiment with them to see if we can make it work for us - otherwise there will be a 2008 up for sale shorltly!

As an aside, the other bit of misleading information that we noticed was that of "AA Cover" - with previous new cars we have always had full recovery included for at least the full year. We did ask before purchasing what it came with and were told "full AA cover" - only when the paperwork turned up did we discover that Peugeot Assist ( run by the AA as far as we can see ) is nothing more than getting the car back to the dealer for warranty repairs. Anything else, such as the more probable puncture, flat battery and so on, are not covered. Is this something anyone else has discovered or was it made clear at the time of the sale?



Thanks to you all.

Gareth
 

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Yes, they sell it as automatic, but truly is robotized.They advertised me about this.
Also I'm not covered at:
- battery
- tires
- usual changing parts: rubbers, nut, muff...also some moving pieces...

I have purchased the extra warranty +3 years from Peugeot, paid almost 600 euro.
The thing is that they cover the engine, the robotic gear...things that are really expensive.
Also they pay in case of car failure:
- plane tickets second class or train tickets first class until home or to continue the trip for all occupants from the car
- exchange car until the own is repaired
- pick-up of the car from where is the failure.
- hotel room for car occupants overnight if car failure, in region the car failed.

All this is Ok to me...
 

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I agree wholeheartedly with Buntings. I have driven many different types of vehicles from tank-transporters to bubble cars and I have never had one so uncontrollable in tight spaces. Its not a matter of using a handbrake or any other sort of brake its just that in a confined space the forward movement is not sufficiently controllable. If for instance you stop a foot short of where you wish to stop you have to release the brake, depress the throttle and the vehicle moves when it wants to. You then have to replace your foot on the brake before it hits anything. Its bad enough on a flat surface. If it slopes or the start stop kicks in it further complicates it. I promise you its not just me. My wife point blank refuses to drive the thing and I have friends who also say they would not purchase such a badly behaving vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks "pilot", Im pleased to know its not just us! The dealer is being useless (although there is of course little they can do) although we are still waiting to see what they can offer as a replacement vehicle (given they have admitted some fault on their part in misselling/pressure selling it).

We did have a play with some of the thoughts yesterday and they will certainly make some difference but as you say, will never give enough control in tight places.

Unfortuntely the manufacturer has not helped this afternoon - I contacted Peugeot and sent them the pretty much the same text that I orginally posted here in essence asking for advice on what we had to do to to get precision control, their response is laughable ( posted below) - and they offer to help me locate the nearest dealer for my new car, not quite where they think I bought it from!

I dearly hoped that we might be missing some trick in dealing with the ECG, clearly there are some tricks that we have been offered that will help but sadly it is also clear the ECG is never going to match the performance of an automatic or manual box. I am not even sure how they can claim its fit for purpose!

Which is a great shame as its a great little car otherwise.

Again, thanks to all for your thoughts and hints during this frustrating time.

Gareth

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Thank you for your recent enquiry made via the Peugeot website regarding your new 2008.



The best course of action would be to speak with the Sales
Department from your local Peugeot dealership who will be able to talk
you through your query, as we do not hold that information here. If you
would like us to send you the details of your local dealership please
reply to this e-mail with your full postcode.



Alternatively you can call us on 0845 200 1234 or visit
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I don't have any problem at all with low speed maneuvering with the EGC.

I park in our garage next to my wife's 206 and I can move a couple of inches forwards/backwards without any jerkiness whatsoever. Behind me is a bench and the fold away summer loungers and I have never ever bumped into anything.

Sometimes when I've gone back a couple of inches too far so that the boot won't open fully then I just select drive and take my foot off the brake and the clutch begins to bite and I move forwards an inch or two.

No problem at all. My wife loves it but does prefer her 206 auto box.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
thanks allan40alt,

Can I assume you are inching forward/backward without any use of the accelerator, just "natural" creep? Can you do the same if you are not on a smooth & level garage floor?

Possibly significant as I would imagine any "creep" is related to engine revs..... which brings me to the question of what RPM your engine is ticking over at and what engine it is (can I assume 1.6 is the diesel rather than petrol - excuse my ignorance of the range).

If engine revs is the key I am wondering if ours can be increased by the dealer.

Thanks
 

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I'll get back to you on those points as I think you'll be wanting me to check it with the engine fully warmed up and I don't use my 2008 very often as we use the 206 for running around locally and picking the granddaughters up and Tesco shopping etc.
 

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The vehicle would be more controllable if the creep was always there. In that case you could use Allan's solution without problem but the fact that, and I have seen it in my dealers handbook , issued by Peugeot, there are a whole host of parameters that control its working, making the use of it unreliable. Everyone who has an ECG 2008 is aware of this. Also the hill assist has parameters as to its function. The problem is that as a driver you do not know when they are or are not operating. Its a great little car and I love its build quality and finish but I believe that its systems are not properly or thoroughly developed. They probably use the same programmers as Airbus. (You should see what some of their pilots say about them!)
 

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The EGC acts like manual if you put it in a slow hill...1. If you have the handbrake engaged, take your foot from footbrake, and will feel the car trying to move fwd. Disengage slowly the handbrake...Will give you a good control, without pressing the acceleration.
2. Also you can try to push one the footbrake, release and again push more powerful and keep...will engage the hill assist...once you release the footbrake, without accelerating, the car will keep position and start to move slowly forward. is not jumping...

These two methods I use frequently because I usually park in a Mall underground, and my parking place is between other cars, on a easy slope.
Until now, I had no problems, but sometimes when I accelerate, I have the feeling that is slippery...
 

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I have already said that whether the vehicle creeps or not is not under the control of the driver. If it always did the manoeuvre would be simple.Most often the throttle has to be pushed which means some fancy dancing on the pedals to move only a couple of inches. I don't believe you should have to modify the way you have always driven to suit one car. Perhaps the actual creep mode varies from car to car.
 

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By the way , I understand that one of the creep parameters is that the ground is level. I don't believe that it is rev related as no throttle input is required for creep. On a flat car park my vehicle will certainly get up to a very fast walking pace sometimes without any input from me apart from taking my foot off the brake, but then again not always. Sometimes it just sits there and if therewas a slope it would run down it. The behaviour is unpredictable. My 3008 with ECG did not have creep but it had an electronic handbrake that released itself after movement. It was much smoother and easier to control as it was totally predictable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ah, yes, I can well imagine what pilots say about the airbus system - slightly off topic but it reminds me of an old airbus joke that actually works quite well here, just substitute driver for pilot and airbus for ECG. It goes something like this:-

How do you tell the difference between a trainee Airbus Pilot and an experience one?

The trainee pilot is the one shouting "What the F*** is it doing now!" whilst the experienced pilot is the one saying "Ah, its doing THAT again!" :)
 

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:))) good joke...
As Pilot says, ECG have unpredictable behavior. this is given by the poor gyro on board. As the ECG reacts using commands from computer, that is watching the gyroscope to see the angle of car, there is the unpredictable behavior.
At strong hills, you will see that this behavior it disappears, as gyro info is accurate...at slow hills, the gyro is reading sometimes that is plane, sometimes that is angle...and appears the errors...
Unfortunately good "gyro" you will find only in army :)

PS. I say gyro at level reading unit that gives the angle of the car (flat or hill)...have not find the proper word for it :)
 
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