[uncletone]

Hi Guys,I'm enjoying your Forum, this weekend I went with the better half to look at a 2008 Allure (Jan 2015 Registered) with 2400 miles, its a demo model for sale at £13900. Seemed a good price.

Anyway its one of those with the 1.6 e-Hdi S/S Diesel engine and the infamous EGC Box that many on here seem to have issues or negative views on.

First impressions were we liked the car being well specced, no sat-nav, but never mind, seemed a bit under powered but then it hasn't done many miles yet.

Anyway sorry for digressing, I would like to ask those that have one of these machines a couple of things if I may.

<ul>[*]Firstly, whilst on an extended test drive the first thing that hit home was the gearchange!! when you accelerate as it comes to change gear the thing seems to die/hesitate, to such a degree you nearly end up hitting the steering wheel with your head and then it selects the next gear and you end up forced back in your seat. What is all that about. Alright after a few miles I adapted by taking my foot off the accelerator in anticipation and the change was a lot better. But there were times when I didn't get it right.I noticed from the Forum that both "Pilot" & "terry3fy" mentioned this hesitation back in 2013. Did it ever get resolved?
[*]When one came to a stop obviously the clutch disengages and the engine stops, (Stop/Start), but I hate sitting at lights with my foot on the brake dazzling the drivers behind. So you end up either switching off the S/S or holding it on the handbrake which can't be good for the clutch, so you put it in neutral then when you come to set off you end up with a bag of neutrals and suddenly disappear into the distance. Most disconcerting. Doesn't appear to have been thought out properly.[*]And then there is the issue of because of a little shuffling around in a car park some have mentioned the car stops and refuses to select a gear meaning being stranded for an hour while the thing reboots itself.So those with this strange box, is this a common thing or does it need the "software update" that so many seem to say they've had.
[*]Secondly, the previous two points were gearbox related, that's my excuse for listing this "secondly". The French are famous for loading their vehicles with tech/electrical gadgets, which seem at times to have a mind of their own. Just how reliable are these things. I see that you have reported a spat of radios/cd/sat-navs just rebooting and stop start issues.[*]Thirdly, the quoted figures for the fuel consumption of around 74.3mpg are like every other manufacturers wildly exaggerated. I guess around town with a bit of motorway and dual carriageway 55mpg might be nearer the mark.[*]And finally, has anybody had the Sat-Nav retrofitted to the car after delivery, if so what was involved?[/list]Sorry for the amount of queries, I'm looking to use this has a company vehicle for my business and expect to average 35k miles per year so I'm little concerned on it's longevity.


We currently have two Audi's a TT and a A6 Avant, but the estate is coming to the end of its lifespan, nearly 4 years old and 146k miles and its been a paramount of reliability but the cost to replace is a little ....expensive and the servicing and parts have been a tad wallet emptying.



The 2008 seems a
likable

machine,
obviously not in the Audi class, but none the less fit for purpose. Its just this gearbox



Thanks in advance for all your advice and I'm sure that one can come to terms with these French
idiosyncrasiesgiven time, and if you have any other issues I'll be pleased to hear of them. I will be giving my
decisionto the Salesman this weekend.



Once again thanks for your comments





Tone

 

[Pilot]

The gear box ,full of neutralsissues, are real and have not been fixed by any "software updates" that my dealer claims to have done. There is also a problem with drivability on the egc vehicle. Normal hill starts are near impossible and low speed manoeuvring in confined spaces is a nightmare. Gear changes can be jerky and sometimes at bizarre times. It can make you look like the worst driver in the world.I won't ever order this gearbox again. My next vehicle will have a full auto box.. I always switch the stop/start off as again there are drivabilty issues with the engine stopping before the car has stopped rollingThe cars themselves are well built and trimmed, no real complaints there and like many others I have achieved around 58mpg in mainly urban motoring. Again no problem there. I would consider very carefully whether you order a car with an egc .

 

[allan40alt]

My advice is to stay well away from the EGC gearbox; not just in the 2008, but in any car.
'What Car' just had a battle for a woman with an EGC 5008 as the clutch had burnt out and it's around £1000 to 'diagnose and repair' it.

I think the main fault is that it is not a true automatic because it still has a clutch and the Stop-Start doesn't always operate and if the engine doesn't stop then the clutch is held open as it would be in a manual car when you sit holding the clutch pedal down.

With the air-con on in the summer and in stop and go traffic or on a very hot day or if the battery is a little flat,then if the S/S doesn't stop the engine you have to remember to move the gear stick to neutral, same as you would in a manual car.

It's a good system, but flawed in that respect. I was constantly reminding my wife to select neutral if she stopped and the engine didn't.

You may remember, but other people driving the car may not.

Mine operated the changes silky smooth and I didn't have the problems of Pilot and many other owners; but the 'having to select neutral' business is just a nuisance.

Save your money and get the new 2008 with theEAT6 automatic gearboxwhen it comes out. It will bea dream to drive and well worth paying a little extra for.

Edited by: allan40alt

 

[Geoffh]

My wife has a manual Allure HDi which it a fantastic car. In fact I like it so much I was going to get the same but with the gearbox so loved/hated depending on how lucky you are. (I must have the "two pedal option"). Because of the negative posts and being caught out by similar gearboxes on a Honda Jazz with i-shift and a Yaris with MMT gearboxes I decided to look elsewhere.
The answer was I got a Yeti with the DSG gearbox, having had a Tiguan with the same box I knew it was simply the best but I wanted to get away from the dreaded electronic handbreak! So SWMBO has a 2008 which she drives and I passenger and I have a Yeti DSG which we both drive.
The more I read about the PSA computerised manual gearbox the happier I am having avoided it.
However I'm sure there will be many who love the said geabox.

Edited by: Geoffh

 

[uncletone]

Hi Guys thanks for all your comments. I have a 2014 TT with the DSG Box and it is sooooo much better.


In light of the comments on here I may well be reviewing my choice of vehicle. I'm looking at a manual box now.

Once again many thanks.

Good to hear of the fuel consumption tho, that might be promising. Anybody retrofitted the Sat-Nav

thanks

Tone

 

[ma23nny]

Hi. I have the egc 1.6 allure and i can honestly say ive bot experienced any of the problems above. My gear changes are silky smooth. The car doesnt hesitate to find the next gear. In regards to the putting the car in neutral at lights etc. If your sat for 10 seconds before your moving off again then i cant see the problem leaving the car in A. If your sat longer then its fairly easy to knock it into neutral... the only thing i was a bit disappointed with was mpg.... about 55 after 10500 miles. A mox of town and motorway. Was expecting in the 60s atleast.

In regards to the sat nav.. a friend of mine was given a plug in usb with his ex demo car that belonged to the salesman who was given it to test but didn't use it so gave it to him as part of the deal.... it works fine according to my pal. Maybe ask about this at the dealers?

Cheers

 

[allan40alt]

No, it's no problem at trafficlights or pedestrian crossings or if the engine 'stops' as it should.
I found though that with the air-con blasting away it never shut the engine down and in congestion or in a traffic jam I was forever shifting to neutral.

Otherwise it was silky smooth and instant changes. The paddle shifts were excellent as well.

 

[george2104]

There has been reported EGC faults on some vehicles...Also mine is working smooth, but...at corners, sometimes, at low speed, it changes from second to first...and is a hesitation...this is because the gear couples slowly, in order not to damage. From lower to upper speed, the changing is pretty smooth...I even tried a fast acceleration, and worked very good.
I wonder if PUG have 2 production lines with 2 EGC manufacturers, is strange to have problems at some, and none at others...
I have also made a small movie regarding maneuverability at very low speed (3-5km/h)...all you have to do is to push harder the brake before anything, to engage the hill assist...than will go in any direction smooth and slow...Have tried it on slow and also hard slopes...
The EGC never had any errors in engaging, but also I don't make fast moves like Front-Rear-Front...
Consumption is very low as long as you use the buttons to accelerate, and not the pedal...also under 95km/h...
Cheers

 

[uncletone]

Hi All,

once again I appreciate your candid comments.Its a shame, that such a fine car in all other respects causes so many varied opinions.



I've driven Audi's for the last 5 years, 2 x TT's, and 2 X A6 Avants, both Petrol and Diesels one manual and three with the DSG Box. One thing that stands out, is build quality even after 60k miles they've been rattle and squeak free. But the running costs can be a little high even tyres etc.
Alsothere was a problem around 2004 when the DSG Box was a disaster waiting to happen. But like all things as time went on they got better and when you understood how they worked and treated it, not as a Full Auto box and you serviced them regularly, they were great. My first one did 140k miles with no problems, when according to all the soothsayers, it should have blown up at 80k.


I suppose the Peugeot is the same, they had a bad reputation for build quality and reliability, at one time you sold a French car before it got to 25k miles, because the electrics would self implode and they said the Italian Electrics were bad.

Peugeot over the years have improved no end, but, sometimes they chuck something out to the market and the end user (me and you) do the carry out the testing. At the moment there are reports of bad gearboxes and, as some on here say, there are good ones. But like most things, they must have built thousands of these that are working perfectly in the eyes of the owners, once they treat them for what they are. But it only takes a few bad ones to cause a bad reputation. Its unfortunate for those that have them, and you cannot help but feel sorry for them. To have bought something that in all aspects should do what it says on the tin, and then you open the tin and its full of worms, this will no doubt leave a sour taste.


If I'm honest I quite like the car, it will replace the A6 Estate admirably, return good economy, I hope so, and the boss of the house finds it attractive and funky, we don't do funky at our age dear. It seems a good price £13900 for a January 2015 Allure model with less than 3k miles on the clock, the dealer is willing to chuck in an extended warranty package, this equates to half the cost to replace the A6. But, and its the big but how reliable is this box will it get to 100k miles in 3 years without falling in bits, or will it be spending half of the time in said garage.

I mean one thing that would bug me is this massive hesitation when it changes up the and down the gears. Some have said its fine, with no hesitation, silky smooth up and down the gears, only hesitates at junctions and roundabouts, when you are waiting for it to change down. If that's the case I would use the paddles in advance, I think. Also stop start, I wouldn't hesitate in speaking to some independent garage and having that turned off permanently in the ECU.

So decisions decisions, just looking on the internet there aren't a lot of these out there for the price and that could be the reason why they are probably discontinuing them.

If one thing, it goes to show that this EGC Box has caused a major discussion amongst owners and is still a major talking point, and for that reason you can see why people either love it or loathe it and for them with a bad one, it's ruined a perfectly good car.

 

[george2104]

You are completely right...The EGC box is robotized one...not DSG...not Double Disk as Citroen...only a manual gearbox that is commanded by clutches...
This is why there is a lot of talk...some does not understand the differences, and expects from this EGC to behave like DSG... NO CHANCE...
I have already learned how to predict the changes up-down, and at that point I can obtain a smooth control...Because this is EGC about: a little guy that change the gear for you...and don't ask money or food )))
You can also obtain anticipated moves by using the levers that control the gear + and - ....or going to manual mode, that is very odd...I have tried it, and I switched to Auto in 1 km...I prefer to boost it with a manual command only when is needed (like you prepare for a take-over: you press the lever - and switch gear down by one...and when accelerate you "feel" the turbine boost helping you in fast take-over)...

So all this discussions are still here because every one of us have different expectations...some knows what is EGC from start...some find out by riding every day...but almost all expect to work like DSG ))))) that will not happen...

 

[Pilot]

That's not how they are sold. When I ordered my car there were no demonstrators with the EGC box available. I was told that it was the same as an automatic. I believe that the vehicles are basically all the same. One is not better or worse than the other. I do believe that your experience of this box may well depend on your personal location and the use that you put your car through. This box has caused many problems to many people, it is used on other PSA vehicles, (Citroen etc ) and has a bad history. I am pleased that others have not had trouble but this gearbox is unpredictable and in my opinion dangerous. I believe that the problems are programming of the ECU and not mechanical. I repeat that my dealer still says that Peugeot are unaware of any problems with this unit but when invited to view the comments on this and the Citroen site has declined . I have learnt this week that they are giving up their Peugeot franchise and are going to represent a Korean manufacturer. Some confidence!!!

 

[Frank Bullitt]

I agree with much of Pilot's comments but there needs to be some context for some elements - the gearbox 'learns' your driving style which is one reason why they tend to perform differently between vehicles and owners experiences are different. It's worth noting that over time the clutch slightly loses calibration making changes and driving 'clunky' there are some software updates which can resolve this - the easiest way is referred to as the 'hard reset' which is a standing start full-bore acceleration in first gear changing up at the red line into 2nd - on the Picasso this works nine times out of ten for owners.

Also, the issues with the reliability of the output shaft bearing are well documented on the C4 site I use (the C4 Picasso is probably the car most commonly used with this gearbox) and whilst it is too common to be rare, there are plenty of people happy with their EGS (Citroen's name) after 100k+ miles, many with 150k+ on them - there doesn't seem to be an correlation between use/ mileage or engine that links the likelihood of output shaft bearing failure.

The internet is full of stories of DSG failure (and the OP notes that despite this they have never had an issue) and my experience is its not as clever as VAG think it is, but experiences are different. EGC has its weaknesses, but it's not totally bereft of positive qualities and in all my years of Citroen ownership I've never heard of it described as 'dangerous'

 

[Pilot]

My gearbox must have serious learning difficulties. I consider that the inabilityto move the car at all(gearbox full of neutrals), the inability to manoeuvre at low speeds, the movement of the car to reversewhen forward is selected and the inability to do normal hill starts ,especially on a small slope when hill start assist is not available to be dangerous. You may have other views but your wise input from other users seems to support my view that this transmission is capable of improvement.

 

[Frank Bullitt]

The transmission is indeed capable of improvement, nobody denies that, but I've been moderator of a forum for a number of years where this gearbox is heavily used and the drivability issues have not, to the best of my knowledge, been noted - the biggest complaint I have ever seen is that the gear changes aren't as smooth as a traditional slusher. Reliability, now that is indeed a common issue as I note above.

If yours is that bad I'd suggest there is indeed a specific fault that Peuegot need to deal with, perhaps a different dealer will help.

 

[uncletone]

I tell you what guys this makes interesting reading, and Pilot you have my utmost admiration for sticking with something that is obviously not fit for purpose.In one of my earlier posts I spoke of the Audi TT DSG box waiting for a disaster to happen. Look at the MK1 Forums and yet I bought one with 20k miles on it serviced it regularly, treated it with respect, it had its faults, it would hesitate especially at junctions and then suddenly launch. That box went on to do 140k miles before I sold the car. Once you learnt to drive around it, the box was fine. But I would be worried sick if someone was to drive it....
The forums are full of owners with duff boxes, but the VAG Group went onto make hundreds of thousands of these boxes but there was a small minority of them that went pear shaped. Clutches would disintegrate, the mechatronic controls (ECU) would give up the ghost at 60k-80k miles !!!!, you could end up with a box of neutrals at the most inconvenient times.

I would imagine that there are thousandth and thousands of these gearboxes out there some are definitely better than others, lots of drivers have adapted to their style, but occasionally some are just downright terrible and a couple of poor forum members have got them.

I don't know what you do with them.

For me well, I've decided to take the plunge and next Friday I pickup the Allure 1.6e-HDi with this infamous gearbox, that I test drove last weekend. At £13999.00 and 2099 miles on the clock, registered January 2015 (64 Plate) I couldn't resist it.
I know some of you will say I'm mad, I probably am and I was forewarned, but I like a challenge and for the money I paid for it, you know what if I haven't mastered it and learnt to love it within 6 months I'll be selling it.
So watch this space, I'll keep you updated. But you know the law of Murphy, (sorry Murphy) something else will drop off give up break down and the box will be fine. We shall see.

So thanks tremendously all those who have posted comments I thank you.

Tone

 

[Pilot]

I really hope that you get one that behaves itself. You make a very valid point in that of course you have to cope with the vagaries of this box on a day to day basis, and I do. The vehicle tho' is not able to be driven by my wife as it scares the hell out her and friends who have seen how this thing behaves have also indicated that there is no way that they would drive the car. All my current dealer has done is 'update' the software as they say there is 'no fault'

 

[Nagaman]

And they gave up and installed a Japanese gearbox

 

[dawry]

My experience's with the EGC box.1 occurrence of a box full a neutral's, I believe this occurs when a batch of 'car park manoeuvring has / is taking place, with quick changes between forward and reverse, if the box is given a little more time things should be ok, I cannot prove or disprove this. An electronic reset is required to solve it. My dealer told me that around 5 minutes is required for this, however this requires the car to be put in full shut down mode, achieved by a switch off and getting and fully locking the car, just switching the engine off is not enough.
Hill starts are possible, either use the forced hill start mode, (By using extra heavy foot brake pressure, or go back to using the hand brake, which is what I do with no problems).
U used this many time in the Pyrenees last year and in the English Lakes this autumn, including the infamous Hard knot Pass.
Low speed 'car park' maneuvering, I find that a method of not fully releasing the footbrake works for me, is seams to know that you only what low speed and that is what you get, it is an learning process as to how much pressure is required.
This could be the route Pilot's issue in that he has hand controls losing sensitivity, and affecting how normal use of the pedals by others could be effected, this is only a thought but it could be the case.

Normal on the road gear changes can be smooth, but judgment is required, and for accelerating, it is best to use the paddle to force a down shift instead of using brute force on the go pedal.

Some others can either help prove or disprove or comment some of these theories.
But also I have noticed that Peugeot now don't list the gearbox, so something about it does frustrate them and how buyers use it, I may be alone in being mechanically sympathetic to its programming, no programme can be perfect, and most be a compromise between usability, function and longevity.

 

[Nagaman]

Is it the case that they've given up on their own auto and gone to Toyota/Aisin auto transmissions instead.
I recon our 308 1.2/130hp and 6A is the ants pants but the 2008 version hasn't arrived here yet.

 

[Ben-the-Frog]

Is it the case that they've given up on their own auto and gone to Toyota/Aisin auto transmissions instead.
I recon our 308 1.2/130hp and 6A is the ants pants but the 2008 version hasn't arrived here yet.

Actually, it has, but it's with the 1.2/110hp, as seen on the Peugeot 208 and the Citroen DS3. See the configurator on www.peugeot.co.uk.