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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm after a bit of advice please...

I've always used (cheap) supermarket petrol and, to be honest, I've never really considered it to be an issue. However, it would appear that most people on here won't touch the stuff so I've been looking at my alternatives and I'm a bit confused about what I should be going for....

- is 'normal' unleaded petrol from the likes of Shell better than 'normal' unleaded petrol from supermarket garages? If so, why? (Shell petrol is only about 1p / l more expensive than Morrisons around here).
- is 'posh' unleaded petrol from supermarkets a better purchase than 'normal' non-supermarket petrol? (Sainsbury's super unleaded is 5p more per l than the standard version).
- is there really any point to buying the likes of Shell V-power? It is 10p / l more expensive and I'm struggling to justify paying that.

My local garages are:
Morrison's (competitively priced)
Jet (competitively priced)
Esso (standard unleaded 7p / l more expensive than everywhere else)
Texaco (standard unleaded 5p / l more expensive than everywhere else)
Shell (standard unleaded competitively priced, v-power 10p / l more)
Tesco (competitively priced, I think they also do a posh version?)
Sainsbury's (competitively priced, super unleaded 5p / l more).

I've no great issues about spending slightly more than base price for petrol but I really don't know which my best option is? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
 

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Hi Kate; long see no time...

You may find some information here:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=petrol+comparisons+quality&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=&gfe_rd=cr&ei=Oj2QVrCBMujU8gfunbHYCQ&gws_rd=ssl

Happy hunting...

Al.

PS: I would always go for branded as opposed to supermarket. Thefuel will be the same but the additives they put in it will be better. That should mean a better burn with less deposits getting through and cleaner injectors etc.

I think the 'extra power' types of fuel are reallyfor the higher performance engines.



Edited by: allan40alt
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Al, hope you are ok


Thanks for your reply. I was pondering whether to go for the standard Shell or the Sainsbury's upgraded version. Maybe standard Shell?

I'll take a look at your link
 

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Branded fuel for me. It all comes out the same refineries but not necessarily the same actual outlet, various additives are put into the fuel.

Given your list above the Shell station is absolutely where I would go (we use BP on account of a discount voucher in the local paper makes it the same price as Tesco).

She'll V-Power has some fantastic cleaning qualities - it is worth using this every 4 tanks to help keep the inside of the engine clean.

Years ago we had an A2 FSi which needed 98RON fuel to run properly - it was flat on 95RON and would only get 37-38mpg, on 98RON (V-Power) it would comfortably get 42-43mpg and drive sharper - the 7-8% price increase was money well spent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks very much, Shell it will be.

One final question - is Shell standard unleaded always going to be the same quality? I'm asking because that particular garage used to be far more expensive but last year it got a new franchisee (apparently) who dropped the price to compete with Morrisons (located close by). Can I assume that they won't now be providing a 'budget' version of Shell petrol, it will still be the same product as previously (they are simply selling significantly more at a lower profit)?
 

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Shell for me also.

Probably a good thing to do the V-Power tank 1 in 4 like Frank suggests to keep the engine/fuel deliveryclean. Small extra to pay for a happy car......
 

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Yes, She'll stuff is the same from station to station, the QC they have is impressive. You'll find there are a variety of reasons why it's now cheaper but where we used to live the Shell station was always cheaper than everyone else where as local to me now, it's more expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you both, have a good weekend
 

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Here is a link that discusses the pros & cons of unleaded v super unleaded.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/advice/fuelling-the-debate-is-supermarket-fuel-ok-to-use-in-your-car/

Car manufacturers use super unleaded when testing their petrol cars for providing their fuel economy and emissions data. The Peugeot 1.2 130 is quite a high performance engine and will benefit from super unleaded, the benefit equates to slightly more power & torque, improved fuel economy, quieter & smoother engine, a more powerful cleaning additive package & anti-friction agent whichhelps keep theinside of the engine clean thereby optimizing fuel efficiency, engine longevity and reliability are enhanced.

When I've used Shell V power diesel in summer conditions I exceedthe car manufacturers quoted figure for the urban cycle, for example, a Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2010 reg they quote 74.2 mpg, I get just over 75 mpg consistently on long runs with varying terrain. A Ford Fiesta 1.0 100ps (using super unleaded)the urban cycle Ford quote is 52.3 mpg, I get 57.6 mpg urban cycle in summer conditions, the cars isn't used for anything other than urban driving, the Focus is used for longer journeys.

When I've tried unleaded I did notice a drop in fuel economy of around 3 - 4 mpg, also the engine sounds noisier and less smooth and poorer acceleration.

It's worth trying a tank full of Shell V-Power Nitro+ to see how your engine responses to it, it willalso help clean the inside of the engine.Then try the Shell unleaded and compare if you want to.

Given the only 1p/ltr price difference between supermarket and shell unleaded you will more than gain by using Shell fuel as it has a superior additive package compared with any supermarket fuel.

When I get a 2008 130 (March delivery) I will fill it with Shell V-Power Nitro+ or Esso Synergy Supreme+ and enjoy the drive home.

Hope this helps you.
 

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Hi Kate,

As the boys have said branded fuel is better than supermarket fuel anytime.

But in saying that some of the major players have teamed up with Supermarkets in the past.

Sainsburys/Shell; Tescos/Esso; Coop/BP; Morrisons /BP.

But before you buy at a supermarket be sure whose fuel it is.

To be safe buy branded and with your engine you only need standard 95 RON petrol. Don't bother using the Shell Nitro + it will be wasted. As Frank says there are more additives to give a cleaner engine, but the reson for that is because the fuel is of a higher octane, invariably 99-100 RON its because the higher the oOctane/RON there is more carbon formed and the fuel meeds the additives to keep the engine clean.

There is nothing wrong with sticking an odd tank full of the Super Fuel in but to gain any real benefits you would need two or three tankfuls continuously.

When Shell had there refinery at Ellesmere Port they developed fuel of various standards (See Ferrari) and the only cars that gain from using it are those developing 300 bhp +. Due to the differing fuel qualities all over the world the Peugeot engines are set up to run on anything from 89-95 RON. In this country and most of Europe, 95 RON (Standard Unleaded to you and me) is the most efficient.

Peugeot have tested their engines and mapped them to run on the stuff, putting Super Unleaded in is, I wouldn't say wasted, but you'd have to have access to a rolling road / dino to see any significant increase that you would notice, as the engine mapping isn't designed to cope with it.

The report from the Telegraph sums it up. The GTi was mapped to run on the 98 RON fuel to gain the best from it, put 95 Stuff in and it feels flat.

The Jag for instance is set up to run on Super Unleaded (98-100 RON) fuel. It will run on the 95 RON but the sensors detect the lower octane fuel and the computer reduces the power accordingly.

Fuel has come along way since that report was first penned. Honest John is talking of fuel 10 tears ago. Fuel from 10 years ago wouldn't fire up half the tractors on the planet, never mind the cars we all run today.
 

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The Peugeot 1.2 110 & 130 engine mappingsare designed to cope with super unleaded andthey run very well indeed on it.
 

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Hi Light

I totally agree with you, the engine will run on "super unleaded", and cope with it easily.

The point I was trying to make, and accept my apologies if my comments were misleading, the Peugeot engine is a relatively low powered unit, it's geared towards economy and won't be able to take advantage of the super unleaded fuels. It's designed to run as economically as possible and in that equation (Fleet Use) involves the cost of the fuel. Because it can run on super unleaded doesn't necessarily mean its mapped to run on the stuff and will show a significant gain by doing so.


The easiest way of knowing if there are any benefits, check the manufacturers handbook.

A case in point, I had a V6 3.2 Audi TT and the handbook said that the car will run on 95 RON, but to get the best from the engine Audi recommended using 97 RON. or above.



Quote taken from a well know engine tuner builder.

The theory is that because premium fuels contain more additives designed to help with the removal of carbon and gum deposits along with other unwanted properties, higher octane fuel is going to prolong the life of the engine and keep it healthier all round. And because it removes these unwanted properties, performance and economy is going to increase.
Most sports cars and especially high performance cars, manufacturers recommend that drivers use a minimum 97 RON fuel to maximise performance and economy. With that in mind, it makes sense to believe that a higher RON fuel is going to increase the performance of a 1.2 Corsa or 1.0 Volkswagen Up or any other non-performance car.
The truth is,<strong style="-sizing: border-;">most drivers of non-performance cars aren't going to notice a considerable performance boostfrom a higher octane fuel, nor are they going to notice a considerable economy boost. However, tests have shown that drivers of performance cars could save around £6 per tank versus standard fuel due to the extra mileage that super-unleaded produces. As always with tests, though, they're best taken with a pinch of salt as they're usually biased or don't take into account multiple driving styles.[/b]
It's important to also consider at this stage that<strong style="-sizing: border-;">your cars ECU has to adapt to the higher octane fueland therefore there will be no performance boost for at least one tank. If your car has been running on 95 octane fuel for a number of months or years your ECU will not be able to distinguish 97 - 100 RON from your standard 95 RON for the first few hundred miles.[/b]
Therefore, any difference you do notice on the first tank of premium fuel will likely be your mind playing tricks on you.

As above, if you do use super unleaded it won't do any harm, in my opinion it's just a waste of money for the benefits gained. But at the end of the day the choice is down to each individual.



In reply to Kate's original question, she would have far more benefits running on branded fuel than a supermarket fuel or on any super unleaded petrol. The main benefit is she will save money in the long run.

Now comes the point where I shoot myself in the foot. Madams 1.6 eHdi diesel engine has been chipped to develop approx 30 bhp more and with that comes an increase in torque. To gain the maximum benefit of that engine map the tuner recommended I run it on the super diesel. We in fact use an additive which works out cheaper, and raises the Cetane level above super diesel, so the engine map can make the most of the fuel. It also means she gets more miles per tank full than before.

Her current fuel consumption figures are up from 53 mpg over 1000 miles to 58.5 mpg over a similar distance. Based on brimming the tank not the computer read out which says she is getting approx 62 mpg.





Edited by: uncletone
 

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Hi uncletone,
This is an interesting subject.

Does "Madams 1.6 eHdi diesel engine" use Millers Diesel Power Ecomax fuel additive ?
We've used it in our diesel, it makes the engine smoother and quieter and we get better mpg, I log the mileage brim to brim to verify. It works out cheaper than super but has all the benefits.

The same goes for Millers Petrol Power Ecomax fuel additive, smoother & quieter engine and better mpg, performs as well as 97 RON super unleaded overall and cheaper, it smells horrible though and care needs to be taken when adding it into the fuel tank as doesthe diesel additive.

I should add a note of caution,a fuel additive may invalidate a warranty claim unless it's approved by the garage so care needs to be taken. Best to stick with branded fuels whilst a car is in warranty.

Our Peugeot dealership carries out testing of the fuel, they can detect what brand or mixtures ofbrands offuel are used for the car, that includes fuel additives.Whenever they have had issues concerning engine running,poor idling, roughness, strange noises, poor fuel economyetc., and they cannot find not a defect, the customer(s) have all been regularly using supermarket fuel and/or mixing them. They then always recommend the customer uses at least acouple of tanks full of agood branded fuel or super,in every case the customerissues have been resolved and this also applies to the 1.2 82/110/130 engines.

I look forward to hearing what fuel Kate decides to go for and if she notices a difference in her car's engine performance/economy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
You guys certainly seem knowledgeable about fuel!

Thank you for all of your help, I'm going to start filling up at Shell (just the normal unleaded, I'm too tight to spend an extra 10p per litre on V-Power - like Tone I'm from Yorkshire
). The car has only ever known cheap supermarket fuel so I will report back in due course if I notice any differences....

P.s. nice to have you back Tone, your goldfish is (miraculously) still alive!
 

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Hi Light

I used to buy the Millers but I use this stuff now, you use it it in small quantities and works for me.

http://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/shop-by-brand/archoil/fuel-treatment-cleaners/archoil-ar6800-diesel-full-power-cetane-booster-713.html




The following article makes interesting reading. We knew about this stuff and Andy when I worked at Shell in Ellesmere Port all those years ago. He's right in a lot of things he says but we sold to the market and its needs.

http://www.oilem.com/what-is-the-best-cetane-booster/

You will find lots of interesting articles on his blog if you like a good read.
 

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Hi uncletone,
Thanks, interesting stuff, hadn't been aware of their product line.

Have you used the ar6800 in your 1.6eHDi ?
If so have you noticed a difference in mpg and smoothness ?
Would you say it's more effective than Millers for mpg/smoothness etc.

Have you used AR6200 or AR6400 in the Jag or MGF and if so what areyour findingson these products ?

Thanks.
 

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Hi Light,

Firstly let me say that in the old days Shell were using some of the "stuff", that Archoil now sells commercially, in their fuel and oil. I don't think t was to the standard and quantity that Archoil do, but then Shell were selling it at a budget.

Andy is right in some respects in what he says, suppliers/manufacturers, just like Archoil, are in the business to make money. Some are better at it than others.

Shell, in my opinion were the leaders in additives in both oil & fuel, hence why there is only Shell who supplied 99/100 RON Super Unleaded, the others Esso, BP etc only provide 97 RON. That is why Ferrari use Shell because of their expertise.

Harvest Energy also provide a 99 RON Fuel and sell it to Tesco as their "Momentum Super Unleaded". I'm led to believe and I cannot guarantee this, but their additive package comes from Shell, again I'm not certain, but as you can only get Shell fuel at 99 RON I wouldn't be surprised.

You can also buy Super Unleaded from BP which is 102/103 RON, they sell it at their site at Silverstone for the track days, it costs approx £2.30p per litre, now you get a sense of the cost in producing super unleaded with a very good additive package.

Imagine the uproar if the oil companies provided the best fuel they can, which meets all the criteria of modern engines today. We'd have no need of "ad blue" etc to keep the diesel engines clean. The fuel would keep the petrol engines free from carbon etc, it would cost double what it does now, so they provide a bare minimum.

But unfortunately we live in a world where all these companies know this and sell you products to help out. Shell V Power has a small amount, just enough to do what it has to, but it could do so much more but the market won't stand it. Why do people buy supermarket fuel!!! when branded fuel is so much better. Because of the cost and their vehicles run on it.

Back to your original questions. Powerenhancer andArchoil, as Andy says, have taken it to another level, or is that sub level. Chemistry has come a long way, they can now use stuff to operate at Nano Level, and it works. This is not "snake oil", there are some products out there, that ause old technology and
theirmarketing team hype it up to make it sound that your car will disintegrate if you don't use it, and we believe them.



You need to do your homework and research and Andy had done is. I remember when he supplied products from BG. I thought this stuff was liquid gold, this stuff is good, no need for decokes or "terraclean" this removed carbon from in front of your eyes. VW/Audi used it, and I
believestill do to help keep their cars meet the
emissionlevels.



http://bgprod.co.uk/products/fuel-and-air-intake

Take a look at the attached photo. This is off the MGF not long after I had run the BG 44k thro the system, bear in mind the car had done 125k miles now, just look how clean the inlet tract and valves are.



But technology has moved on and we now have Archoil.

"Madam" uses the AR6800 in her fuel only 25ml per 50 ltrs of fuel as it appears this is the best amount.e use this because itdelivers a better Cetane number
than Millers, which helps because of the remapped engine.

Does it work wonders, I'm sure it does, in combination with the map, the car responds a lot quicker to throttle openings, it will pull a higher gear and the fuel consumption is better. Obviously it will help with the emissions as well because it gives a cleaner burn.



The Jag was struggling when I first bought it, it would hesitate before catapulting you to the horizon in a cloud of tyre smoke, it would sometimes seem to struggle or miss a beat, as if I could tell on a V8. It just didn't seem right. The dealers had it in and said that, for want of a better word, it was clogged up and to give it a good blast. They must have thought I didn't need my license.

Anyway I bought some AR6400 and put that in a tank full of fuel, Bear in mind I was using Shell V Power because Jaguar said 97+ RON fuel would deliver the power and performance. After one tankful with this cleaner in, I felt and noticed that the "hesitation & fluffing" had reduced. Its always difficult to quantify any improvement, but the engine definitely responded how I felt it should have done.
I also started using their AE6200 EU and recently, before we disappeared to the South of France working, I dropped the car in for a service and asked the technicians to check the emission levels. They reported that they had dropped from the previous readings and the engine seemed to be running OK.

This isn't miracle stuff, all it does is return the engine back to the level when it was new, by cleaning the rubbish out of it. Fuel consumption, I would like to say that it now returns 30 mpg up from 18 mpg, will cruise at 185 mph all day, I wish, but over a thousand miles in mixed driving it seems to have settled around the 20-21 mpg which for me is great. And I use 95 RON fuel which is cheaper and I've not noticed any great loss in performance. Result.

All I can say is the stuff works for me, I know its keeping the engines clean which helps with performance and fuel economy in all our cars.

At the end of the day, its down to each individual and to what level he wants to keep his car engines free from carbon etc etc.

We do a lot of mileage per annum as a company, so the benefits outweigh the cost of using this stuff as against buying the more expensive fuel.

Hope that has answered some of your questions.



Edited by: uncletone
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Lol, I thought that you had posted a photo of E.T.
 

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Oh very funny...
.....stick to handbags and shoes !!!
 
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